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Sep. 6th, 2006 @ 04:30 am (no subject)
Crossposted, in a couple of places.

After this thread concerning the existence of Jesus, I got into a personal conversation with the guy everyone seems to be against.



Night Ninja 76 (2:34:09 AM): It seemed like you might have misunderstood me in my last comment
Night Ninja 76 (2:35:37 AM): I wasn't saying that there was proof that a star followed someone, I was asking why nobody noticed it, since it supposedly happened right after Jesus was born
Night Ninja 76 (2:36:01 AM): but there are no records of it outside the book of matthew

deadcheeseturtle (2:37:18 AM): some shepherds noticed it
Night Ninja 76 (2:37:34 AM): only according to the myth
Night Ninja 76 (2:37:59 AM): but there is no independent confirmation of that, or even in other parts of the bible
Night Ninja 76 (2:39:01 AM): that's like trying to find out if Superman exists, but only asking people who work for DC comics

deadcheeseturtle (2:40:14 AM): most of the bible isn't written to prove something, though. it's written assuming you believe it. so it doesn't overkill stuff that was already mentioned because that would just be unnecessary clutter.
Night Ninja 76 (2:40:38 AM): there's plenty of unnececary clutter though
Night Ninja 76 (2:40:51 AM): Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob...etc

deadcheeseturtle (2:41:41 AM): everything in there is for a reason. just because you don't understand or value it doesn't make it any less meaningful
Night Ninja 76 (2:42:25 AM): Just because you assign it some arbitrary value doesn't mean it actually has any worth, either
deadcheeseturtle (2:43:11 AM): there are a lot of people that value it, and for very good reasons
Night Ninja 76 (2:45:02 AM): The same can be said about Mein Kampf, Goodnight Moon, or Jessica Simpson's music
deadcheeseturtle (2:45:27 AM): but those things aren't founded on much
Night Ninja 76 (2:45:31 AM): just because someone, somewhere likes it, even if it's a group of people, doesn't actually mean it's any good
Night Ninja 76 (2:45:40 AM): neither is the bible

deadcheeseturtle (2:45:48 AM): it sure is
Night Ninja 76 (2:45:52 AM): it's a bunch of jewish fairy tales
Night Ninja 76 (2:46:00 AM): it isn't even self consistent

deadcheeseturtle (2:46:05 AM): how familiar are you with the bible?
deadcheeseturtle (2:46:11 AM): how many times have you read it?

Night Ninja 76 (2:48:06 AM): Timothy 3:9 specifically says to avoid the genealogies you just defended because "they are unprofitable and vain"
Night Ninja 76 (2:48:27 AM): I've not completed the whole thing
Night Ninja 76 (2:48:46 AM): although, there are several portions I've read multiple times

deadcheeseturtle (2:48:57 AM): i believe that.
deadcheeseturtle (2:49:26 AM): there probably isn't much that's not taken out of context with you.
deadcheeseturtle (2:49:44 AM): if you read the bible through a few times, you would probably have a better understanding of what it does and doesn't say

deadcheeseturtle (2:49:59 AM): you can't bitch about something that you refuse to familiarize yourself with
deadcheeseturtle (2:50:04 AM): that's fucking stupid

Night Ninja 76 (2:50:13 AM): what do you mean refuse?
Night Ninja 76 (2:50:39 AM): It's not like all I have to do is sit down for 20 minutes and then I'll become a friggin' theology scholar

deadcheeseturtle (2:50:54 AM): but you can read a book.
Night Ninja 76 (2:51:13 AM): It's something like 49 books
deadcheeseturtle (2:51:43 AM): then you can read a volume. the point is that you won't.
Night Ninja 76 (2:52:01 AM): 66, apparently
Night Ninja 76 (2:52:12 AM): Oh, so now you're Ms.Cleo?

deadcheeseturtle (2:53:50 AM): you said yourself that you haven't read the bible through. i'm not jumping to conclusions.
Night Ninja 76 (2:54:57 AM): Predicting the future is pretty much the definition of 'jumping to conclusions'
Night Ninja 76 (2:55:25 AM): Genesis through Judges, Job, the Gospels, and Revelations, I've gone through on more than one occasion
Night Ninja 76 (2:55:50 AM): Jonah, Ezekiel, Acts, and Romans at least once
Night Ninja 76 (2:56:03 AM): and a few dozen psalms
Night Ninja 76 (2:56:34 AM): I'm not going to claim supreme knowledge over all that is biblical, but you can't say I'm completely ignorant
Night Ninja 76 (2:56:45 AM): or that I'm not making an effort to see what it's about

deadcheeseturtle (2:58:54 AM): then i don't understand why you're having such a hard time with it all
Night Ninja 76 (3:00:25 AM): with what?
Night Ninja 76 (3:03:03 AM): finding value in it?
Night Ninja 76 (3:03:58 AM): It's true, there are some good things in there, but nothing original
Night Ninja 76 (3:04:41 AM): and the few positive parts are vastly outweighed by portions that are extremly negative, or just plain stupid
Night Ninja 76 (3:06:27 AM): Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can read five pages of the Bible and tell it was written by ignorant shepherds, not an infinity wise being

deadcheeseturtle (3:07:52 AM): what do you think is so negative and stupid?
Night Ninja 76 (3:08:30 AM): If you claim a book was written by the most complex person in the universe, I expect to see profound truths
Night Ninja 76 (3:09:06 AM): The teachings and thoughts of the Omniscient Creator of All should leave me in awe and amazement
Night Ninja 76 (3:09:59 AM): instead the best it has to offer is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," a maxim most kindergartners have figured out
Night Ninja 76 (3:12:17 AM): You should be able to open up any page in the bible and be stunned by the brilliance and clarity. not rubbish like: "thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight."
Night Ninja 76 (3:12:43 AM): or "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses"
Night Ninja 76 (3:13:30 AM): or "When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property."
Night Ninja 76 (3:14:05 AM): "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death;"
Night Ninja 76 (3:15:26 AM): Or the story about Lot giving his daughter away to the horny mob who rapes her to death; Afterward he cuts her body into 12 pieces and mails one to each tribe of Israel
Night Ninja 76 (3:15:54 AM): Or the story about God sending bears to eat little kids who made fun of a bald man
Night Ninja 76 (3:16:46 AM): or all the stories about God helping (an encouraging) Joshua and Moses to commit genocide

deadcheeseturtle (3:18:25 AM): sounds like you're reading it without much understanding of what was going on, and why events and laws existed and were significant
Night Ninja 76 (3:18:33 AM): I understand
Night Ninja 76 (3:19:09 AM): and in the context of a bunch of jewish caveman, forcing a woman to marry the man who raped her makes perfect sense
Night Ninja 76 (3:19:56 AM): But surely you aren't going to claim that that's an acceptable policy?
Night Ninja 76 (3:20:57 AM): I mean the immortal god wouldn't make laws with expiration dates, now would he? Is that a good exhibition of infallibility?

deadcheeseturtle (3:23:37 AM): if you're trying to understand or learn something, you can't filter it through all of your preconceived notions about it. there's a lot of stuff you've said that just isn't accurate, and until you're trying to understand instead of just proving yourself right, you're not gonna get anywhere.
Night Ninja 76 (3:24:13 AM): isn't accurate? such as?
deadcheeseturtle (3:28:02 AM): jewish cavemen?
Night Ninja 76 (3:28:25 AM): Admittedly that was an exaggeration
Night Ninja 76 (3:29:21 AM): but if that's the only inaccuracy, your complaint is weak as a girl scout with cerebral palsy

deadcheeseturtle (3:31:06 AM): fortunately, it isn't. everything that you're basing these opinions of yours on is bullshit, and you have no clue. it would be fruitless to argue with you about it, and i have no interest in that anyway.
Night Ninja 76 (3:33:14 AM): Then why have you been reading and responding to my comments for four hours?
Night Ninja 76 (3:33:20 AM): Clearly you're an elitist dogmatist incapable of rational discourse and no longer worthy of my time
Night Ninja 76 (3:33:26 AM): Goodbye, I discard you


Then I blocked him.
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Jason the Ninja
nightninja76: